http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23687095
dear han ultranationalists:
china is obviously a great power in this world. when you are a great power, you get criticized. with great power, this kind of criticism is a natural occurence
a true great man can take lots of criticism in stride. an immature powerless man meanwhile freaks out every time someone suggests the slightest negative thing about him. it shows a lack of confidence, an insecurity
han ultranationists: do you believe that china is a great power? if you do, then start acting as that great power status dictates: have more confidence. china will be criticized more and more every year since it is so powerful now. if you cannot handle that criticism, then you are in danger of destroying your own greatness with your own insecure behavior
to defeat the creation of insecure people in china, you should foster a healthy amount of internal dissent and self-critical thinking in china. if you do not, if you censor anything that remotely criticizes the chinese government or the chinese nation, then what you do is make the chinese people permanent children. you incubate chinese who are unable to handle criticism without freaking out in insecurity and a lack of confidence and thereby diminishing the greatness of china
china is a great nation. i believe that as an american. so start acting like a great nation, and grow some thicker skin when foreigners criticize china. being criticized is a natural product of being powerful. get used to it. believe me, as an american, i know something about being criticized on the world stage! and mostly, i just shrug it off. you should to
完整版本: 美国网民看中国民族主义
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23686949
nationalism is not an american invention
that there are han imperialists and han apologists shouldn't really amaze you. every culture and country in this world: russia, brazil, nigeria, mexico, india, etc., etc. has a loud vocal nationalist sentiment
the americans that engage in nationalist chest thumping of course deserved to be spoken out against, but most importantly on this point, in the usa, according to law, you can actually speak out against them
whereas in china, or cuba, or turkey, and other countries, to criticize your country or your government, something most americans consider second nature, is very much foreign and is outright censored and punished
such that if there are fascist nationalist forces being bred somewhere in this world, it is in the incubators that filter out any self-critical thought, such as with china and its web policy
that's why you get these mainland chinese freaking out whenever they hear a foreigner criticize china. they are very tender on the point. as an american, we're pretty much immune to other nations criticizing us, it's pretty much an international past time at this point, but for a chinese, grown up in a media environment that purposefully eradicates all self-critical thought, the idea of criticizing chinese government or chinese character is alien
this, of course, is extremely dangerous. china as a growing power will get more such criticism, as is natural for any great power in the world. but if the chinese people cant' take the criticism, you run the real risk of a demagogue seizing control in china, someone who panders to nationalist chest-thumping, rather than prudent governance
people always talk about american self-interest as the greatest evil in this world. but compared to the chinese, americans are practically thick skinned when it comes to anti-americanism. anti-chinese sentiment really drives some mainland chinese absolutely nuts. its psychologicaly unhealthy and a stunted frame of mind, to have no capacity for self-criticism, and to just reject all of it out of hand as foreign meddling
the very idea of self-criticism is anathema to han ultranationalists. certainly most american nationalists also suffer form an allergy to self-criticism. but this is more a function of their own personal psychological failures, rather than a government-level psychological incubation
nationalism is not an american invention
that there are han imperialists and han apologists shouldn't really amaze you. every culture and country in this world: russia, brazil, nigeria, mexico, india, etc., etc. has a loud vocal nationalist sentiment
the americans that engage in nationalist chest thumping of course deserved to be spoken out against, but most importantly on this point, in the usa, according to law, you can actually speak out against them
whereas in china, or cuba, or turkey, and other countries, to criticize your country or your government, something most americans consider second nature, is very much foreign and is outright censored and punished
such that if there are fascist nationalist forces being bred somewhere in this world, it is in the incubators that filter out any self-critical thought, such as with china and its web policy
that's why you get these mainland chinese freaking out whenever they hear a foreigner criticize china. they are very tender on the point. as an american, we're pretty much immune to other nations criticizing us, it's pretty much an international past time at this point, but for a chinese, grown up in a media environment that purposefully eradicates all self-critical thought, the idea of criticizing chinese government or chinese character is alien
this, of course, is extremely dangerous. china as a growing power will get more such criticism, as is natural for any great power in the world. but if the chinese people cant' take the criticism, you run the real risk of a demagogue seizing control in china, someone who panders to nationalist chest-thumping, rather than prudent governance
people always talk about american self-interest as the greatest evil in this world. but compared to the chinese, americans are practically thick skinned when it comes to anti-americanism. anti-chinese sentiment really drives some mainland chinese absolutely nuts. its psychologicaly unhealthy and a stunted frame of mind, to have no capacity for self-criticism, and to just reject all of it out of hand as foreign meddling
the very idea of self-criticism is anathema to han ultranationalists. certainly most american nationalists also suffer form an allergy to self-criticism. but this is more a function of their own personal psychological failures, rather than a government-level psychological incubation
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23684237
Re:Silver lining...
I've noticed that theres a small contingent of very nationalistic Chinese Slashdot users who get butthurt whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about the Chinese government. Usually its with a "OMG Why do you hate us so much!?" sort of mentality that I previously thought was exclusive to blindly patriotic Americans (yes I'm American). Thats probably who's doing the down-modding.
I'm a bit amazed at how hesitant a lot of Chinese guys I know are to say anything remotely negative about the Chinese government and get really upset if you insinuate that its not all fluffy bunnies and flowers with the government. But then again I'm used to pretty much everyone complaining about my government.
Re:Silver lining...
I've noticed that theres a small contingent of very nationalistic Chinese Slashdot users who get butthurt whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about the Chinese government. Usually its with a "OMG Why do you hate us so much!?" sort of mentality that I previously thought was exclusive to blindly patriotic Americans (yes I'm American). Thats probably who's doing the down-modding.
I'm a bit amazed at how hesitant a lot of Chinese guys I know are to say anything remotely negative about the Chinese government and get really upset if you insinuate that its not all fluffy bunnies and flowers with the government. But then again I'm used to pretty much everyone complaining about my government.
引用(imacover @ 7 Jun 2008, 1:20) 
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23684237
Re:Silver lining...
I've noticed that theres a small contingent of very nationalistic Chinese Slashdot users who get butthurt whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about the Chinese government.
Re:Silver lining...
I've noticed that theres a small contingent of very nationalistic Chinese Slashdot users who get butthurt whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about the Chinese government.
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23684675
Re:Silver lining...
Not just Slashot users, but Chinese in general. I watched a news program or documentary recently that covered the subject, and it turns out the Chinese, the young and college educated particularly, exhibit the same reaction.
It turns out that, and I'm generalising here, the Chinese, if they don't "like it that way". have few objections to strong government control. For a westerner that might be hard to fathom, but I think it's unfair to dismiss their preferences as absurd or characterise them as the result of some sort of brainwashing.
What shouldn't be hard to fathom is that for someone who's Chinese, China is their country. Last I checked, national pride is a universal phenomenon, and treading on other's sense of identity or pride, however enlightened or well-intentioned, is always bad form and inevitably leads to conflict.
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23686077
Re:Silver lining...
If that news report was the recent article on PBS' News Hour, then don't forget that those students they interviewed were hand-picked by the Chinese authorities for the interview.
Not that it wasn't informative. Maybe there are many who share their view. One interesting thing the students said was that non-Chinese people don't appreciate how much change the Chinese government *has* allowed, how much different it is now than it was. While I hope that's true, I'd counter that the Chinese government hasn't changed voluntarily, they've been forced to by modern global changes, or else they'd miss out on the huge benefits of e.g. the Internet.
Re:Silver lining...
If that news report was the recent article on PBS' News Hour, then don't forget that those students they interviewed were hand-picked by the Chinese authorities for the interview.
Not that it wasn't informative. Maybe there are many who share their view. One interesting thing the students said was that non-Chinese people don't appreciate how much change the Chinese government *has* allowed, how much different it is now than it was. While I hope that's true, I'd counter that the Chinese government hasn't changed voluntarily, they've been forced to by modern global changes, or else they'd miss out on the huge benefits of e.g. the Internet.
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23685677
Re:Silver lining...
China has a lot to be proud about. They're doing an admirable job building an economy and improving the average life of their citizens. But at the same time, human rights abuses should not be overlooked. Having pride in ones' own country is fine. But being proud of ones' country means that you also have high expectations of it. I'm disappointed in my country's behavior because I am proud of it, as strange and illogical as that seems.
I don't see why we should hold back on criticizing a country that is not our own. No-one says that Europeans do not have a right to criticize America. Likewise, Americans will criticize Europe. Plenty of people criticize Russia. Western nations are not exempt from criticism, and the "Its not your country" excuse has been, time and time again, put down as a poor excuse to silence criticism. I will not extend favoritism to China in this regard.
Lets not forget that a lot of the "rah rah China" guys tend to be pretty damn critical of America. Turn-about is fair play. We will not improve each other by pretending everything is right with our countries. I certainly hope that Europe and Asia continue to criticize my government. Its important for our growth.
Re:Silver lining...
China has a lot to be proud about. They're doing an admirable job building an economy and improving the average life of their citizens. But at the same time, human rights abuses should not be overlooked. Having pride in ones' own country is fine. But being proud of ones' country means that you also have high expectations of it. I'm disappointed in my country's behavior because I am proud of it, as strange and illogical as that seems.
I don't see why we should hold back on criticizing a country that is not our own. No-one says that Europeans do not have a right to criticize America. Likewise, Americans will criticize Europe. Plenty of people criticize Russia. Western nations are not exempt from criticism, and the "Its not your country" excuse has been, time and time again, put down as a poor excuse to silence criticism. I will not extend favoritism to China in this regard.
Lets not forget that a lot of the "rah rah China" guys tend to be pretty damn critical of America. Turn-about is fair play. We will not improve each other by pretending everything is right with our countries. I certainly hope that Europe and Asia continue to criticize my government. Its important for our growth.
http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=57...mp;cid=23686579
Re:Silver lining...
Well, Irish Americans like to pretend that it's all bread and roses in Ireland, same as Jews love Israel. No one wants to be told that "their people" are doing something wrong, because it can come off as an attack on them, ie "China's government is bad" turns into "the Chinese are bad," which conflicts with "I'm Chinese," and leads to a response of "you just wouldn't understand," or "RACIST!!"
Not saying that's necessarily the case in any particular context, but any immigrant community is going to carry over idealized fondness of the homeland, forgetting that if it were really /that/ great, they wouldn't have had to leave.
There is an old saying that goes, 'everyone has a nationality, but the Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.' You can probably add Chinese to that, too, as it seems to fit your data.
note: I am of Irish descent and have dated Jewish girls. The above comment should not be taken as an attack on the Jews or the Irish, but anyone who has been to a Flogging Molly concert or a Bar mitzvahs will know what I'm talking about.
Re:Silver lining...
Well, Irish Americans like to pretend that it's all bread and roses in Ireland, same as Jews love Israel. No one wants to be told that "their people" are doing something wrong, because it can come off as an attack on them, ie "China's government is bad" turns into "the Chinese are bad," which conflicts with "I'm Chinese," and leads to a response of "you just wouldn't understand," or "RACIST!!"
Not saying that's necessarily the case in any particular context, but any immigrant community is going to carry over idealized fondness of the homeland, forgetting that if it were really /that/ great, they wouldn't have had to leave.
There is an old saying that goes, 'everyone has a nationality, but the Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.' You can probably add Chinese to that, too, as it seems to fit your data.
note: I am of Irish descent and have dated Jewish girls. The above comment should not be taken as an attack on the Jews or the Irish, but anyone who has been to a Flogging Molly concert or a Bar mitzvahs will know what I'm talking about.
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