你们也许精通英文辩论，但歪理邪说终不能胜正。
你们也许身在大都伦敦，但灯红酒绿终无助学业。
你们也许闲至挖空心思，但胜负输赢却未见改观。
你们也许不服剑桥称雄，但铁证如山决不容分辩。

朋友啊，
你们若还是中华儿女，
自己人之间就应多一点关怀
多一点宽容，
不要为一言一语而鼠肚鸡肠。

心中的不满，
请不要自私的发泄，
平静的道来，
有什么不可解决。

历史的悲剧，
也许还要历史来化解，
但历史的脚步，
又有谁能改变。

饮一杯清酒，
道一声珍重，
朋友远去之时，
昏鸦瘦马画卷。

可以理解，有不少想进oxbridge的最后都不得不进IC，心理上不平衡是当然的。

并不是为帝国理工卫道，你看到我那一句话说过帝国比剑桥好了？不过你既然要助人，就不要使用太过偏激的语调，否则求助者如何做出正确的判决？

另外多说一句：受一点挫折不要马上把一切都归于种族主义，声泪俱下的为中华民族叫屈，好一个大义凛然的爱国志士。以后多点自信，少点自卑。

ps: 你查查字典 sarcasm 什么意思，再回味回味牛津高才 darkblue 的贴子。我都不忍心看下去了。

QUOTE (amadeus @ 25 Feb 2003, 19:02)

并不是为帝国理工卫道，你看到我那一句话说过帝国比剑桥好了？不过你既然要助人，就不要使用太过偏激的语调，否则求助者如何做出正确的判决？

我扬剑桥而抑帝国，而你出帖驳我，且文字间充满诡辩，这不是为帝国理工卫道是干什么？你和darkblue在网上自诩清高，飚帖，耍几句嘴皮子就敢称之为高才，如此岂不让人笑掉大牙。并且，有人求助，我来发表看法，你们却丝毫不顾求助者，只顾咬文嚼字，逞一时之快，说客气点，你们是文人，说难听点，这叫文化流氓。

QUOTE (amadeus @ 25 Feb 2003, 19:02)

另外多说一句：受一点挫折不要马上把一切都归于种族主义，声泪俱下的为中华民族叫屈，好一个大义凛然的爱国志士。以后多点自信，少点自卑。

我申请帝国理工，并无傲慢之意，但他们的态度实在让人不敢恭维。我不是把一切都归于种族主义，但你敢说你在英国的待遇和英国的Aboriginese一样吗? 你就没有被撇过白眼吗？说我自卑，恐怕你言语之中抬杠的成分居多吧。奉劝以后做人多想想自己，不要动不动就装学究，教训人，到底你是几斤几两，大家心里都有数。

我同意你在Imperial遇到的问题确实存在，但是与其说那是学校的问题，不如说是大城市的通病，伦敦是最典型的代表，Imperial如此，其他伦敦大学的学校也不能避免，所以把你所受到的待遇和某一个学校联系起来是不公平的。
在伦敦这样的大城市，人们生活的压力都很大，用我的朋友的话说，连一片富有生命的绿地都没有，学校里很多教辅人员的工资可能连支付房租都不够，只好住在市郊，每天旅行上班就要2个小时。而剑桥牛津虽然也是名城，却更多的可称为是个大学城，不管是环境还是人心都要比伦敦这种国际的大都市要强的多，从治学的角度来讲，我个人觉得剑桥牛津更为适合。
可是大家在英国的目的与要求有时候可能不是只是治学那末简单了。而剑桥牛津在某些专业的课程设置上过于传统，对一些人来讲，很难找到合适的科系。比如我当年想学计算机，履历成绩自信申请哪所学校应该也没问题，可是，因为我不是计算机本科毕业的，我在剑桥牛津找不到合适的专业，而帝国的计算机系有专门为非计算机本科人员设置的硕士。可能计算机高材生们觉得我们这样半路出家的人纯属混事，但是事实是班里面几乎所有的本国学生都是拿一等学位，带全额奖学金来的，而执牌的律师，会计师也不占少数，帝国理工给这些其他行业的精英提供了一个学习的机会。在我参加毕业典礼的时候，全班同学我知道的都已经找到工作了，在国际银行任职的也不占少数。我们的系里面负责的老师说，她招生的原则是，宁肯要一个约克大学的西方艺术史的一等学位的，也不要一个二流大学的计算机系本科的二等二的。所以仅从我的经历来讲，帝国在兼容性上比较现代。
忘了说了，帝国理工的图书馆是他们国家的科学图书馆，我觉得藏书还是挺全的，各个系也都有自己的图书馆。因为这个学校是纯理工的学校，藏书的方向比较集中，所以科学工程方面的书还真是不错的。我觉得Darkforce在这点上可能只凭一次面试是不能了解的。
谈到找工作，不能不提的是，身在伦敦的大学，找工作更为便利，大小公司都可以随时参加面试。有些小公司，招人可能优先考虑在伦敦的人，因为他们不愿意负担Relocation的费用，当然，各位志存高远，可能也就不屑这样的机会了。而且英国的大公司多在伦敦，在上学的时候就多熟悉一下这个城市也未尝不是一件好事。如果有带家眷来的，建议去伦敦，因为打工也好，找事做也好，伦敦可能比任何一个城市都要容易些。
羡慕各位牛桥的同胞，也怀念在伦敦的日子，但是 我还是最喜欢我苏格兰农民的生活。

我基本上同意sunhenan的看法。
不过说实在的，伦敦不是读书人待的地方，干扰因素比较多，没法静下心来读书、搞研究。从这点上，oxbridge要好多了。
在我看来伦敦更像是Business Man该待的地方，学习、就业的机会比较多，因此LSE能成功也就不奇怪了。
说来说去，我还是喜欢Cambridge，喜欢看King's College傍晚的彩霞或者到北边高地俯瞰市区。真是惬意的生活啊......(浮想联翩)

QUOTE (DarkForce @ 25 Feb 2003, 19:11)

1) 我扬剑桥而抑帝国，而你出帖驳我，且文字间充满诡辩，这不是为帝国理工卫道是干什么？ 2) 你和darkblue在网上自诩清高，飚帖，耍几句嘴皮子就敢称之为高才，如此岂不让人笑掉大牙。 3) 并且，有人求助，我来发表看法，你们却丝毫不顾求助者，只顾咬文嚼字，逞一时之快，说客气点，你们是文人，说难听点，这叫文化流氓。 4) 我申请帝国理工，并无傲慢之意，但他们的态度实在让人不敢恭维。 5) 到底你是几斤几两，大家心里都有数。

1) Why don't you study some logic, my young friend? I don't think by stating some weaknesses of your argument of "扬剑桥而抑帝国" is the same as 扬帝国而抑剑桥.

2) What you are doing isn't much better - somewhat the opposite of DB or Amadeus, but nothing short of simply trying to attract attention. You succeeded in that, so well done. What are you trying to prove, the fact that you are able to pretend that you are stupid (in almost every way that there is)? You succeeded in doing that as well, again well done. Do you think that you have come out of today's events on top? If yes then you are sadly mistaken.

3) The original question is aimed at the pros and cons of selecting either Imperial or Cambridge for an undergraduate engineering degree. Your first answer is not at all answering the question, but simply to throw a lot of controversy in the air. If you look up the word controversy, you'll find what usually surrounds it. If this is your way of cleaning up your mess, then you should try better.

4) Everybody knows the number of Chinese students at Imperial. Statistics usually have a distribution. You were unfortunately caught at the wrong end of it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. (I forget, you are at Cambridge.)

5) The same goes to you.

Darkforce, if you really are a force and a dark one, why don't you stay in the shadows?

QUOTE (yoda @ 25 Feb 2003, 22:10)

QUOTE Darkforce, if you really are a force and a dark one, why don't you stay in the shadows?

Interesting. Egesta is smelly, but usually only flies surround it. And normally, flies always gang up with other flies, sharing their "delicious" meal, while pretending that they have relied on these sort stuff for many many years(Even Luc becomes as old as Yoda in these years).
According to the latest figure form NASA's microwave cosmic backgroud research, the universe contains 7% of nomally matter, 22% of dark matter, 71% of dark energy. And these dark forces is just what drove our universe to expand to its current size. People, if you are a engineer, you should know what does this mean: dark forces is everywhere, and forms the major part of the universe, we call it dark, not because it hides in shadows, but only because blind people cannot see it --- what a pity. Besides all of these, could you tell what is lying on the front of the facade, the dark or the bright, or a poor blur on the light bulb(although it seems impossible).

QUOTE (sunhenan @ 25 Feb 2003, 20:27)

我同意你在Imperial遇到的问题确实存在，但是与其说那是学校的问题，不如说是大城市的通病，伦敦是最典型的代表，Imperial如此，其他伦敦大学的学校也不能避免，所以把你所受到的待遇和某一个学校联系起来是不公平的。 在伦敦这样的大城市，人们生活的压力都很大，用我的朋友的话说，连一片富有生命的绿地都没有，学校里很多教辅人员的工资可能连支付房租都不够，只好住在市郊，每天旅行上班就要2个小时。而剑桥牛津虽然也是名城，却更多的可称为是个大学城，不管是环境还是人心都要比伦敦这种国际的大都市要强的多，从治学的角度来讲，我个人觉得剑桥牛津更为适合。 可是大家在英国的目的与要求有时候可能不是只是治学那末简单了。而剑桥牛津在某些专业的课程设置上过于传统，对一些人来讲，很难找到合适的科系。比如我当年想学计算机，履历成绩自信申请哪所学校应该也没问题，可是，因为我不是计算机本科毕业的，我在剑桥牛津找不到合适的专业，而帝国的计算机系有专门为非计算机本科人员设置的硕士。可能计算机高材生们觉得我们这样半路出家的人纯属混事，但是事实是班里面几乎所有的本国学生都是拿一等学位，带全额奖学金来的，而执牌的律师，会计师也不占少数，帝国理工给这些其他行业的精英提供了一个学习的机会。在我参加毕业典礼的时候，全班同学我知道的都已经找到工作了，在国际银行任职的也不占少数。我们的系里面负责的老师说，她招生的原则是，宁肯要一个约克大学的西方艺术史的一等学位的，也不要一个二流大学的计算机系本科的二等二的。所以仅从我的经历来讲，帝国在兼容性上比较现代。 忘了说了，帝国理工的图书馆是他们国家的科学图书馆，我觉得藏书还是挺全的，各个系也都有自己的图书馆。因为这个学校是纯理工的学校，藏书的方向比较集中，所以科学工程方面的书还真是不错的。我觉得Darkforce在这点上可能只凭一次面试是不能了解的。 谈到找工作，不能不提的是，身在伦敦的大学，找工作更为便利，大小公司都可以随时参加面试。有些小公司，招人可能优先考虑在伦敦的人，因为他们不愿意负担Relocation的费用，当然，各位志存高远，可能也就不屑这样的机会了。而且英国的大公司多在伦敦，在上学的时候就多熟悉一下这个城市也未尝不是一件好事。如果有带家眷来的，建议去伦敦，因为打工也好，找事做也好，伦敦可能比任何一个城市都要容易些。 羡慕各位牛桥的同胞，也怀念在伦敦的日子，但是 我还是最喜欢我苏格兰农民的生活。

再苏格兰有什么既能工作，又能惬意享受生活的机会吗？

QUOTE (DarkForce @ 26 Feb 2003, 6:54)

According to the latest figure form NASA's microwave cosmic backgroud research, the universe contains 7% of nomally matter, 22% of dark matter, 71% of dark energy. And these dark forces is just what drove our universe to expand to its current size. People, if you are a engineer, you should know what does this mean: dark forces is everywhere, and forms the major part of the universe, we call it dark, not because it hides in shadows, but only because blind people cannot see it --- what a pity. Besides all of these, could you tell what is lying on the front of the facade, the dark or the bright, or a poor blur on the light bulb(although it seems impossible).

two points

1. presence in the dark does not necessarily imply hiding. intelligent people (blind or not) know they (dark matter and dark energy) are there, without seeing it. as such, dark force remains "invisible" and yet we sense it. yoda is simply advising you the moral metaphor.

2. humans have over 90% composition of water, but are we anywhere near similar to the rivers or the lakes? don't tell me what drives you is h2o!? it's simply wrong to equate majority and essence. this point of your argument is weak.

you are obviously lying on the front of the facade, though i'm not sure whether you are dark or bright.

QUOTE (darkblue @ 26 Feb 2003, 9:41)

QUOTE (DarkForce @ 26 Feb 2003, 6:54) According to the latest figure form NASA's microwave cosmic backgroud research, the universe contains 7% of nomally matter, 22% of dark matter, 71% of dark energy. And these dark forces is just what drove our universe to expand to its current size. People, if you are a engineer, you should know what does this mean: dark forces is everywhere, and forms the major part of the universe, we call it dark, not because it hides in shadows, but only because  blind people cannot see it --- what a pity. Besides all of these, could you tell what is lying on the front of the facade, the dark or the bright, or a poor blur on the light bulb(although it seems impossible). two points 1. presence in the dark does not necessarily imply hiding. intelligent people (blind or not) know they (dark matter and dark energy) are there, without seeing it. as such, dark force remains "invisible" and yet we sense it. yoda is simply advising you the moral metaphor. 2. humans have over 90% composition of water, but are we anywhere near similar to the rivers or the lakes? don't tell me what drives you is h2o!? it's simply wrong to equate majority and essence. this point of your argument is weak. you are obviously lying on the front of the facade, though i'm not sure whether you are dark or bright.

You have been too far away from what I'm talking about and begin to lose your sharp logic. R U sleepy, man? I don't want to make arguement about each point you stated here, try to understand more before you are going to give your announcement.

But one thing I have to mention, it's my fault to refers to the lastest discovery of dark matter and energy, we just simply know far from enough about it to talk about its properties, it is far beyond our knowledge, just as you said, 90% of our body is formed by water which is a kind normal matter, but do you know how much dark matters and dark energy we have in our body, this part of matter and energy cannot be seen, felt or smelt by us at current stage, but they are exsiting, how do we find out what actually they are is one of the most important and interesting topic of tomorrow's phsics and engineering. My speech of dark forces drove the expension of universe is base on the researching of elit scientists like Einstein and Hawking, don't argue with it and confuse people with your speech before you can fully understand what you are talking about, and I am asking you to show your respect to those people who powered the development of our world with their talent.
Gook luck and best wishes, have a nice day.

It take a fight to make people know each other.

darkforce，本来与偶无关，不过写帖子前最好先拜码头， 查索一下各位大虾从前的大作，这里牛津剑桥伦敦三版的哥哥姐姐哪里有省油的灯，大家现在正郁闷，你刚好英文逻辑不通地撞上来，大家陪你写已经纯粹为了开心，见好就收罢。

QUOTE (dittotop @ 26 Feb 2003, 12:02)

darkforce，本来与偶无关，不过写帖子前最好先拜码头， 查索一下各位大虾从前的大作，这里牛津剑桥伦敦三版的哥哥姐姐哪里有省油的灯，大家现在正郁闷，你刚好英文逻辑不通地撞上来，大家陪你写已经纯粹为了开心，见好就收罢。

Sorry, I am just for fun as well, or otherwise why I spend time to write something which does not associated with my work. Just relax, logic is something manipulating computer but not people.

I have to intention to fuel this debate. Conclusion has been clearly made. Personally, I feel Darkforce has over-done this. It's alright if this is just for a fun. But I don't feel this is a better way to improve click rate on Cam BBS.

Nice to see Darkblue come out of water. How is your retirement life ?

BTW, I could find my FISH EYE icon for my posts in the new apperance of BBS, where has it gone ?

QUOTE (Lao Yu @ 27 Feb 2003, 10:21)

I have to intention to fuel this debate. Conclusion has been clearly made. Personally, I feel Darkforce has over-done this. It's alright if this is just for a fun. But I don't feel this is a better way to improve click rate on Cam BBS. Nice to see Darkblue come out of water. How is your retirement life ? BTW, I could find my FISH EYE icon for my posts in the new apperance of BBS, where has it gone ?

Sorry for those radical words I threw here, but it brings me closer to people here.

hehe...still waiting for Imperial offer...went there for inteview last week...

QUOTE (DarkForce @ 26 Feb 2003, 11:47)

don't argue with it and confuse people with your speech before you can fully understand what you are talking about

precisely!

QUOTE (darkblue @ 28 Feb 2003, 18:11)

QUOTE (DarkForce @ 26 Feb 2003, 11:47) don't argue with it and confuse people with your speech before you can fully understand what you are talking about precisely!

never thought i'd miss killer one liner yoda was so good at

QUOTE (darkblue @ 28 Feb 2003, 18:11)

QUOTE (DarkForce @ 26 Feb 2003, 11:47) don't argue with it and confuse people with your speech before you can fully understand what you are talking about precisely!

darkblue，我想问一下关于oxford gathering，
如果不是牛津，剑桥，帝国的学生（现在不是，将来也不可能是）能不能参加？

争取F2,要么就讨个VIP凑合

QUOTE (darkblue @ 28 Feb 2003, 18:11)

precisely!

啊...啊....啊。。。。。有..有..有..有病毒~！！！~！！~！！！！~！！！~~~~.....................................(Crashed)

QUOTE (amnesia @ 28 Feb 2003, 18:44)

darkblue，我想问一下关于oxford gathering， 如果不是牛津，剑桥，帝国的学生（现在不是，将来也不可能是）能不能参加？

everybody and anybody is welcome.

Super. Darkblue, would you mind initiating a new topic here? I really don't want this invitation to be buried under this title (No offence, Darkforce). Cheers.

QUOTE (qcyshh @ 1 Mar 2003, 20:25)

Super. Darkblue, would you mind initiating a new topic here? I really don't want this invitation to be buried under this title (No offence, Darkforce). Cheers.

Dear Board Master, kill this topic with your overwhelming power, that's its destiny.

乱 ~
好 玩 ~
可 悲 ~
丢 人 ~