jimmyyi
6 Mar 2005, 16:07
有高人熟悉这所大学吗?
觉得它怎么样?
Not too bad, in a beautiful and expensive little town.
Only thing concerning is too many chinese already,
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:31) |
Not too bad, in a beautiful and expensive little town.
Only thing concerning is too many chinese already, |
Ewin是surrey毕业的?
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) |
有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
Unfortunatly not, but Gla and UCL . Only now lives where only a stone throw from SeU
Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) |
Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden

.
A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion.
ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath).
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
Hehe,,,, u forgot to say --- go to pub and have several pints----
But if you can afford an house in this area, you could not be just a gardener.
Okay, could I borrow some money from you 12 years later?
BTW, in which year you enrolled in UCL? I have a friend studied his Ph.D there back to 1999 or 2000 in Biochemistry. He is now working in the same department.
jimmyyi
7 Mar 2005, 11:24
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:54) |
| BTW, in which year you enrolled in UCL? I have a friend studied his Ph.D there back to 1999 or 2000 in Biochemistry. He is now working in the same department. |
Biochemistry? oh, not know (if see the face, maybe know each other). In different campus, and I was postdoc there that time.
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 7 Mar 2005, 11:24) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
|
not bad, yu can have a try. Also depend on which subject you study.
cathypigwang
8 Mar 2005, 17:24
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:59) |
Unfortunatly not, but Gla and UCL . Only now lives where only a stone throw from SeU |
Glasgow?? ney bad city, so you like Tennant's lager?
your aye,
pig
cathypigwang
8 Mar 2005, 17:27
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 7 Mar 2005, 22:49) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 7 Mar 2005, 11:24) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
|
not bad, yu can have a try. Also depend on which subject you study.
|
help me,man.
i'm thinking of doing a course in DNA repair or cell signaling or stuff like that when I'm free. any ideas?
cathypigwang
8 Mar 2005, 17:30
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 7 Mar 2005, 22:48) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:54) | | BTW, in which year you enrolled in UCL? I have a friend studied his Ph.D there back to 1999 or 2000 in Biochemistry. He is now working in the same department. |
Biochemistry? oh, not know (if see the face, maybe know each other). In different campus, and I was postdoc there that time.
|
file updated
which department anyway?
cathypigwang
8 Mar 2005, 17:32
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
cathypigwang
8 Mar 2005, 17:48
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:51) |
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
Hehe,,,, u forgot to say --- go to pub and have several pints---- But if you can afford an house in this area, you could not be just a gardener. Okay, could I borrow some money from you 12 years later? |
Dongbei
8 Mar 2005, 17:49
Surrey的外部环境不错,学校的设施也不差,中国同胞们越来越多的现象在哪所大学都是一样的.
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 7 Mar 2005, 11:24) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
|

生物啊!俺是生化!咋不来约克啊?
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:32) |
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
|
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:48) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:51) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
Hehe,,,, u forgot to say --- go to pub and have several pints---- But if you can afford an house in this area, you could not be just a gardener. Okay, could I borrow some money from you 12 years later? |
|
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 7 Mar 2005, 11:24) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
|
Bio related division in Surrey Uni is a 5*A. Their sleep unit is a leading unit in UK.
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:30) |
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 7 Mar 2005, 22:48) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:54) | | BTW, in which year you enrolled in UCL? I have a friend studied his Ph.D there back to 1999 or 2000 in Biochemistry. He is now working in the same department. |
Biochemistry? oh, not know (if see the face, maybe know each other). In different campus, and I was postdoc there that time.
|
file updated which department anyway? |
hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide
cathypigwang
9 Mar 2005, 10:42
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 8 Mar 2005, 22:56) |
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:30) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 7 Mar 2005, 22:48) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:54) | | BTW, in which year you enrolled in UCL? I have a friend studied his Ph.D there back to 1999 or 2000 in Biochemistry. He is now working in the same department. |
Biochemistry? oh, not know (if see the face, maybe know each other). In different campus, and I was postdoc there that time.
|
file updated which department anyway? |
hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide |
cathypigwang
9 Mar 2005, 10:43
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 8 Mar 2005, 22:51) |
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:48) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:51) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
Hehe,,,, u forgot to say --- go to pub and have several pints---- But if you can afford an house in this area, you could not be just a gardener. Okay, could I borrow some money from you 12 years later? |
|
|
cathypigwang
9 Mar 2005, 10:45
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 8 Mar 2005, 22:50) |
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:32) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
|
|
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 8 Mar 2005, 17:48) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 7 Mar 2005, 10:51) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 6 Mar 2005, 23:33) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 21:05) | Oh?So you are living in a place full of rich people |
That's true, and another truth is that too posh a place like this made me stay at home all the time watering this garden  . A gardener lives in a shad of a mansion. ps. 12 years later, i can be a multi millionia (re-yesterday's news of Hampstead Heath). |
Hehe,,,, u forgot to say --- go to pub and have several pints---- But if you can afford an house in this area, you could not be just a gardener. Okay, could I borrow some money from you 12 years later? |
|
cathypigwang
9 Mar 2005, 12:36
Got to do a PhD then. You know all the scholarshipp information than any one else here.

molecualr biology, emmmmm, lots group in UK are quite good at that ...
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士?
晕死啊
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:39) |
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many |
要我20号之前交1000镑Deposit
发了封信去要他们推迟到5月,昨天发的今天还没有消息。想去看看校园情况住宿环境。
还想等等,看看其他学校的消息。
担心担心中。
cathypigwang
10 Mar 2005, 10:44
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 21:19) |
Got to do a PhD then. You know all the scholarshipp information than any one else here.
molecualr biology, emmmmm, lots group in UK are quite good at that ... |
cheers,mate. but i'm just kidding
doing a phd in molecualr biology

when i'm in my seventies.
lira12
10 Mar 2005, 21:32
Are you going to apply any degree or not? Mr Pigwang?
jimmyyi
11 Mar 2005, 11:27
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 8 Mar 2005, 22:55) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 7 Mar 2005, 11:24) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
|
Bio related division in Surrey Uni is a 5*A. Their sleep unit is a leading unit in UK.
|
what is sleep unit? I miss here.
jimmyyi
11 Mar 2005, 11:29
| QUOTE (YORK草 @ 8 Mar 2005, 18:23) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 7 Mar 2005, 11:24) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
我是读生物的!请问还可以吗?
|
 生物啊!俺是生化!咋不来约克啊? |
申请ing…… york 好像只有mres的。你说难申请吗?
jimmyyi
11 Mar 2005, 11:33
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:48) |
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:39) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many |
要我20号之前交1000镑Deposit 发了封信去要他们推迟到5月,昨天发的今天还没有消息。想去看看校园情况住宿环境。 还想等等,看看其他学校的消息。 担心担心中。 |
呵呵,原来是准校友啊!
可以留下联系方式吗(聊天的)
cathypigwang
11 Mar 2005, 12:01
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 10 Mar 2005, 21:32) |
Are you going to apply any degree or not? Mr Pigwang? |
well, actually fed up with degree couses in social sciences:
Phd in management,
MSc in social research methods
MSC(Econ) in Management
MSc in Psychology( China)
BA in Politics
maybe it's time for a change. but maybe too old( and too foolish) to do a course in science
jimmyyi
11 Mar 2005, 12:14
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 11 Mar 2005, 12:01) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 10 Mar 2005, 21:32) | Are you going to apply any degree or not? Mr Pigwang? |
well, actually fed up with degree couses in social sciences: Phd in management, MSc in social research methods MSC(Econ) in Management MSc in Psychology( China) BA in Politics maybe it's time for a change. but maybe too old( and too foolish) to do a course in science |
how old r u? 28+?
cathypigwang
11 Mar 2005, 19:37
surely > Mrs Yang( 28), definately < Prof. Yang(82)
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 11 Mar 2005, 11:33) |
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:48) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:39) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many |
要我20号之前交1000镑Deposit 发了封信去要他们推迟到5月,昨天发的今天还没有消息。想去看看校园情况住宿环境。 还想等等,看看其他学校的消息。 担心担心中。 |
呵呵,原来是准校友啊! 可以留下联系方式吗(聊天的)
|
我还在思量中!等待其他学校的信息啊。听说Surrey好进不好出!30%毕业率?
jimmyyi
12 Mar 2005, 11:03
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 11 Mar 2005, 22:25) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 11 Mar 2005, 11:33) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:48) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:39) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many |
要我20号之前交1000镑Deposit 发了封信去要他们推迟到5月,昨天发的今天还没有消息。想去看看校园情况住宿环境。 还想等等,看看其他学校的消息。 担心担心中。 |
呵呵,原来是准校友啊! 可以留下联系方式吗(聊天的)
|
我还在思量中!等待其他学校的信息啊。听说Surrey好进不好出!30%毕业率?
|
没有这么夸张吧!哪里可能30%,网上写有89%吧
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 11 Mar 2005, 12:01) |
| QUOTE (lira12 @ 10 Mar 2005, 21:32) | Are you going to apply any degree or not? Mr Pigwang? |
well, actually fed up with degree couses in social sciences: Phd in management, MSc in social research methods MSC(Econ) in Management MSc in Psychology( China) BA in Politics maybe it's time for a change. but maybe too old( and too foolish) to do a course in science |
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 11 Mar 2005, 22:25) |
| QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 11 Mar 2005, 11:33) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:48) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:39) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
|
好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many |
要我20号之前交1000镑Deposit 发了封信去要他们推迟到5月,昨天发的今天还没有消息。想去看看校园情况住宿环境。 还想等等,看看其他学校的消息。 担心担心中。 |
呵呵,原来是准校友啊! 可以留下联系方式吗(聊天的)
|
我还在思量中!等待其他学校的信息啊。听说Surrey好进不好出!30%毕业率?
|
Absolutly wrong.
jimmyyi
15 Mar 2005, 14:27
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 15 Mar 2005, 13:29) |
| QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 11 Mar 2005, 22:25) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 11 Mar 2005, 11:33) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:48) | | QUOTE (Ewin @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:39) | | QUOTE (秀豆桐思 @ 9 Mar 2005, 23:31) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 6 Mar 2005, 20:52) | | QUOTE (jimmyyi @ 6 Mar 2005, 16:07) | 有高人熟悉这所大学吗? 觉得它怎么样? |
看你要学的专业,理科工程,电子,文科管理,经济。如Ewin所说,中国学生奇多,大部分都是经济或者管理,还有市场的硕士。 学校环境倒是不错,很漂亮,而且离伦敦也比较近。
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好多学市场的硕士? 晕死啊 |
too many |
要我20号之前交1000镑Deposit 发了封信去要他们推迟到5月,昨天发的今天还没有消息。想去看看校园情况住宿环境。 还想等等,看看其他学校的消息。 担心担心中。 |
呵呵,原来是准校友啊! 可以留下联系方式吗(聊天的)
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我还在思量中!等待其他学校的信息啊。听说Surrey好进不好出!30%毕业率?
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Absolutly wrong.
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So, do u know what the graduate rate of Surrey is?
cathypigwang
15 Mar 2005, 18:02
| QUOTE (Ewin @ 15 Mar 2005, 13:27) |
| QUOTE (cathypigwang @ 11 Mar 2005, 12:01) | | QUOTE (lira12 @ 10 Mar 2005, 21:32) | Are you going to apply any degree or not? Mr Pigwang? |
well, actually fed up with degree couses in social sciences: Phd in management, MSc in social research methods MSC(Econ) in Management MSc in Psychology( China) BA in Politics maybe it's time for a change. but maybe too old( and too foolish) to do a course in science |
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that's not the point. really didn't mean to do it. why's the problem?????

see below
You have to admit. She is already in PhD program, and you are .......... ( Ewin 2005)
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