I study Business Administration major in Financial Management. I saw that a lot of people who studies finance want to work for Investment banks. I know they are the big names, however I have heard from a lot of people that working in an IB is very tough. You do earn a bit more, but for that you have to work much harder (over 50 hours/week).
So why, do you want to work in investment banks?
Challenging, fast-pace, and rewarding. That's why i like it, quite demanding tho.
It depends on what r u looking for, what kind of balance between life and work u like. It seems u r not promising in IB job. Why not look for some other options? It's important to make sure that u will enjoy the job in the first place.
Good luck.
It depends on what r u looking for, what kind of balance between life and work u like. It seems u r not promising in IB job. Why not look for some other options? It's important to make sure that u will enjoy the job in the first place.
Good luck.
How can i get a IB job? i think it is quite impossible for a MSc student in Finance related subjects. My classmates and I did try to send our CV to some IBs, but we can not get a chance for even internship. The uni I graduated from is not too bad (Top 10) and all of us are at least 2:1. I don't why IBs do not response to us sometimes. Is there something wrong in our application process? Could u share me ur successful experience?
BTW, can u give me a list of IBs in London?
3X a lot!
BTW, can u give me a list of IBs in London?
3X a lot!
Investment Banking job does get alot more pay, but not necessarily need to work long hours. Of course, it depends on what business field you are working at. More challenge..... 
Whiskey, thank you very much for sharing the experience.
So far, have you found your job rewarding? In the sense of training opportunities, self-developement, recognization and of course financial reward?
So far, have you found your job rewarding? In the sense of training opportunities, self-developement, recognization and of course financial reward?
To netdagger
I think the most difficult stage is to pass the CV screening. It is So HARD to make some impressions on this 1 piece of paper. To my experience, if I could get to the interview stage, there is a very good chance that I get picked. If you have tried applying before, and did not get a positive response, then it's probably your CV is not impressive enough.
However what seems to be very different with IBs, is that not only they want you to be in the assessment centre, you also have to go through a lot of tests, which I consider could add a great deal of difficulties to stand out from the selection.
I think the most difficult stage is to pass the CV screening. It is So HARD to make some impressions on this 1 piece of paper. To my experience, if I could get to the interview stage, there is a very good chance that I get picked. If you have tried applying before, and did not get a positive response, then it's probably your CV is not impressive enough.
However what seems to be very different with IBs, is that not only they want you to be in the assessment centre, you also have to go through a lot of tests, which I consider could add a great deal of difficulties to stand out from the selection.
| QUOTE (Larali @ 25 Oct 2005, 14:32) |
| Investment Banking job does get alot more pay, but not necessarily need to work long hours. Of course, it depends on what business field you are working at. More challenge..... |
If that's the case, I have all the incentives to give it a try~~
| QUOTE (Larali @ 25 Oct 2005, 14:32) |
| Investment Banking job does get alot more pay, but not necessarily need to work long hours. |
I think you will find that not working long hours in an investment bank is not really an investment banking job.
| QUOTE (alfredo @ 25 Oct 2005, 19:21) | ||
I think you will find that not working long hours in an investment bank is not really an investment banking job. |
long hour u meant, thats only for these M&A area, i assumed.
As a trader, usually working hour will be from 6:30 or 7:00 am to 5:30 pm or 6pm.
i dont see it as long working hours
compared with M&A guys. yep, sure, although the salary is seriously good in investment banking, but actually if u divide the amount by hours, u might find it the average salary per hour is not that glamorous, even lower than a few other jobs. but there is one thing that most people forgot about it, these traders would have HUGE bonus if they do well, and u have to do well to keep urself employed, no banks is willing to pay u for nothing, no matter even u dont want that huge bonus urself.
一個字﹐投行錢很多
一般一個投行基本員工﹐起薪兩萬多﹐可是﹐他/她年底一般拿一年以上薪水的獎金。更別提5-6年後﹐一般人4-5萬磅﹐他很容易拿十幾萬一年。再往後。。。而且接觸的都是“高級人士”。找對象俊男靚女都多很多。英國人自己都萷尖了腦袋想進去。﹔
一般一個投行基本員工﹐起薪兩萬多﹐可是﹐他/她年底一般拿一年以上薪水的獎金。更別提5-6年後﹐一般人4-5萬磅﹐他很容易拿十幾萬一年。再往後。。。而且接觸的都是“高級人士”。找對象俊男靚女都多很多。英國人自己都萷尖了腦袋想進去。﹔
| QUOTE (v_c @ 25 Oct 2005, 8:29) |
| You do earn a bit more, but for that you have to work much harder (over 50 hours/week). |
I think the number is not so accurate...
| QUOTE (alfredo @ 25 Oct 2005, 19:21) | ||
I think you will find that not working long hours in an investment bank is not really an investment banking job. |
I do not agree with you. My husband works in IB company, from 8am till 7pm. occasionally work one or two late nights a week. Also I know alot of his colleagues, some are CEO or head of the department, they don't work that late as well. Compare with my job back in HongKong, I used to work from 8am till 9pm, it was way longer than people here working in the IB. My job was only a trading business... If you are broker, you do need very long hour and of course you get even more pay and more risk in your work.
| QUOTE (cantylei @ 25 Oct 2005, 21:35) | ||||
long hour u meant, thats only for these M&A area, i assumed. As a trader, usually working hour will be from 6:30 or 7:00 am to 5:30 pm or 6pm. i dont see it as long working hours compared with M&A guys. yep, sure, although the salary is seriously good in investment banking, but actually if u divide the amount by hours, u might find it the average salary per hour is not that glamorous, even lower than a few other jobs. but there is one thing that most people forgot about it, these traders would have HUGE bonus if they do well, and u have to do well to keep urself employed, no banks is willing to pay u for nothing, no matter even u dont want that huge bonus urself. |
That doesn't sound very nice does it? I mean you have to work so many hours...from 6:30am to 6pm, that is 11 hours per day, and 55 hours per week. And you do not have job security...i mean, i study finance, and i make mistakes. what if you make one mistake? are you gonna lose your job because of 1 mistake?
That's horrible....how much money is enough to compensate for such stress??
and, companies do pay people for not doing nothing. like HR people. The company where i worked, the HR people do nothing everyday. They are never there when you need them , and they do not know anything when you have a question. But for starters, HR and finance earn the same salary.
| QUOTE (orcface @ 26 Oct 2005, 7:55) |
| 一個字﹐投行錢很多 一般一個投行基本員工﹐起薪兩萬多﹐可是﹐他/她年底一般拿一年以上薪水的獎金。更別提5-6年後﹐一般人4-5萬磅﹐他很容易拿十幾萬一年。再往後。。。而且接觸的都是“高級人士”。找對象俊男靚女都多很多。英國人自己都萷尖了腦袋想進去。﹔ |
I keep asking myself...do i want to be one of the "高級人士"?
I always thought i work to live, not live to work....
| QUOTE (v_c @ 26 Oct 2005, 15:11) |
| That doesn't sound very nice does it? I mean you have to work so many hours...from 6:30am to 6pm, that is 11 hours per day, and 55 hours per week. And you do not have job security...i mean, i study finance, and i make mistakes. what if you make one mistake? are you gonna lose your job because of 1 mistake? That's horrible....how much money is enough to compensate for such stress?? and, companies do pay people for not doing nothing. like HR people. The company where i worked, the HR people do nothing everyday. They are never there when you need them , and they do not know anything when you have a question. But for starters, HR and finance earn the same salary. |
hehe everybody makes mistake, but u dont intend make 'big' ones, if a trader keep losing money let's say millions for clients or bank itself, sure, he would not be secured at where he is at the end. if u lose thousands pounds, in fact most traders do lose that much occasionally, it is pretty normal on the trading enviroment, no matter how good u r, in that case, u would be ok with that, although u would not feel good about that And regard to 'long hour' we talk about, traders dont work specially long hours, they only workl when market is open, no need for them to sit together when it is off-peak time as nothing would happen.
u know, some M&A people work seriouly LONG hour, as they might have 4 or 5 hrs sleeps for a day, and have to work hard like hell during weekends when there is a big merging deal going on. and they get big bonus for that, well, if they do well.
hehe i dont know about HR side, so i could not give my comment.
the 'Stress' u mentioned, it is true, many people find it difficult, specially when u could not speand time with ur families and girlfriend/boyfriend (M&A), thats why, when investment banking recruit people, what they are looking for, is that the commitment u have for what u gonna do. Career choice is really a personal issue, u choose what u enjoy doing, and some people actually like fast-pace and challenging lives. it is really down to ur own decision.
| QUOTE (orcface @ 26 Oct 2005, 7:55) |
| 一個字﹐投行錢很多 一般一個投行基本員工﹐起薪兩萬多﹐可是﹐他/她年底一般拿一年以上薪水的獎金。更別提5-6年後﹐一般人4-5萬磅﹐他很容易拿十幾萬一年。再往後。。。而且接觸的都是“高級人士”。找對象俊男靚女都多很多。英國人自己都萷尖了腦袋想進去。﹔ |
very stressful
英国人里面做trader失败转行的挺多的
我以前的plumber就是个trader
我认识个it manager, 还有几个卖软件的都曾是trader
不知道中国人trader里面有多少人能承受的住失败的考验
我以前的plumber就是个trader
我认识个it manager, 还有几个卖软件的都曾是trader
不知道中国人trader里面有多少人能承受的住失败的考验
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 26 Oct 2005, 17:54) |
| 英国人里面做trader失败转行的挺多的 我以前的plumber就是个trader 我认识个it manager, 还有几个卖软件的都曾是trader 不知道中国人trader里面有多少人能承受的住失败的考验 |
i knwo there is one Chinese guy has been trading for more than 10 years so far. respectful!!! 
| QUOTE (cantylei @ 26 Oct 2005, 21:14) | ||
i knwo there is one Chinese guy has been trading for more than 10 years so far. respectful!!! |
干10年还没挣够养老金？
失败呀去年一位大叔拿到了3000w的bonus, 真牛人啊，不过好像是MA那边的
我觉得trading 是赌博，MA 才是真功夫
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 26 Oct 2005, 22:19) | ||||
干10年还没挣够养老金？ 失败呀去年一位大叔拿到了3000w的bonus, 真牛人啊，不过好像是MA那边的 我觉得trading 是赌博，MA 才是真功夫 |
maybe he enjoys doing it so, hehe i dont know the fact what is the real motivation drives him still.trading is only a little bit less risky than gambling, as they have strong support at their back like quants people or front office research before they make BIG decisions. but losing thousands pounds in a few second, i think it should sound normal to them.
MA people have highly motivation about what they do, and they actually enjoy doing it. but u have to give up quite a lot like families and gf/bfs, would be in a better shape once u become to be in more senior position.
the trader will be in BIG trouble if he mess up his report, or the middle office can prove that he is messing it up
so, some traders have to treat their team nicely
he can shout at back office, though
so, some traders have to treat their team nicely
he can shout at back office, though
It's so nice to have information from you guys. I think I should take a serious look into my motivation, and interests.
I'm so chinese, i have no idea what my interests are. and since i'm not that interested in earning big money...it's very hard to obtain such strong motivation to go work for an IB....
don't you guys have the same problem?
I'm so chinese, i have no idea what my interests are. and since i'm not that interested in earning big money...it's very hard to obtain such strong motivation to go work for an IB....
don't you guys have the same problem?
| QUOTE (Larali @ 26 Oct 2005, 8:20) | ||||
I do not agree with you. My husband works in IB company, from 8am till 7pm. occasionally work one or two late nights a week. Also I know alot of his colleagues, some are CEO or head of the department, they don't work that late as well. Compare with my job back in HongKong, I used to work from 8am till 9pm, it was way longer than people here working in the IB. My job was only a trading business... If you are broker, you do need very long hour and of course you get even more pay and more risk in your work. |
GEEZ.. IB HAS DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AS WELL.. DEPENDS ON WHAT HE WORKS IN, 'INVESTMENT BANK' IS NOT THE SAME THING AS 'INVESTMENT BANKING', I'M VERY SURPRISED THAT YOU KNOW SO LITTLE OF WHAT YOUR OTHER HALF DO.
ALSO, SINCE HE IS AT SUCH SENIOR LEVEL, OF COURSE HE DOESN'T NEED TO SPEND AS LONG AS THE JUNIOR ANALYSTS.... ITZ THE NATURE OF ALL BUSINESSES THAT JUNIORS DO RESEARCH AND COLLECT DATAS SO THE SENIORS WOULDN'T HAVE TO AND CAN CONCENTRATE MORE ON DECIDISON MAKING.
AND MORE, I CANT BELIEVE YOU SAYING BROKERS MAKE MORE MONEY AND TAKES MORE RISKS. IN CASE THEY ARE THE CORE PERSONNEL IN UR EX-FIRM, THEN I WOULD RATHER CALL IT A BROKERAGE FIRM THAN A TRADING FIRM.
| QUOTE (v_c @ 25 Oct 2005, 7:29) |
| I study Business Administration major in Financial Management. I saw that a lot of people who studies finance want to work for Investment banks. I know they are the big names, however I have heard from a lot of people that working in an IB is very tough. You do earn a bit more, but for that you have to work much harder (over 50 hours/week). So why, do you want to work in investment banks? |
50 HRS A WEEK? MAKE IT 100 AND START COUNTING
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 26 Oct 2005, 23:07) |
| the trader will be in BIG trouble if he mess up his report, or the middle office can prove that he is messing it up so, some traders have to treat their team nicely he can shout at back office, though |
SO I CAN TELL YOU ARE NOT IN THE TRADING BUSINESS. FYI, TRADERS DON DO REPORTS, SO THEY CANT MESS IT UP. ALSO, EACH TRADER HAS DIFFERENT CREDIT LIMIT DEPENDS ON HIS ABILITY, EXP..ETC. IF HE IS OVER THE LIMIT, CREDITS WILL ALERT HIM TO REDUCE THE TRADING AMOUNT WITH A CERTAIN PERIOD, USUALLY 1-2 DAYS, WHETHER HE IS GOOD TO THEM OR NOT. TRADERS DOESN'T HAVE TO PLEASE EVERYONE IN THE FIRM, NOT EVEN THE CEO OR CHAIRMAN. YOU CAN BE A WORLD-CLASS ASSHOLE AND STILL KEEPING THE JOB AS LONG AS U MAKE TONS OF MONEY.
AT LAST, TRADING DOES INVOLVE GREAT RISKS BUT ITZ TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PURE GAMBLING. IF U HAVEN'T TRIED IT, DON KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT, THEN I SUGGEST U DON MAKE TOO MUCH ASSUMPTIONS AND SHOW SOME RESPECT.
| QUOTE (v_c @ 26 Oct 2005, 15:11) | ||||||
That doesn't sound very nice does it? I mean you have to work so many hours...from 6:30am to 6pm, that is 11 hours per day, and 55 hours per week. And you do not have job security...i mean, i study finance, and i make mistakes. what if you make one mistake? are you gonna lose your job because of 1 mistake? That's horrible....how much money is enough to compensate for such stress?? and, companies do pay people for not doing nothing. like HR people. The company where i worked, the HR people do nothing everyday. They are never there when you need them , and they do not know anything when you have a question. But for starters, HR and finance earn the same salary. |
HOW MUCH DO U NEED.... LAST YEAR OUR HEAD TRADER MADE 300 MILLION, ALONE, FOR THE FIRM, AND HE TAKES 20% AS BONUS. OUR WHOLE TEAM OF 14 MADE 1600 MILLION, I HOPE THAT SOUNDS REWARDING TO YOU....
| QUOTE (ZOMBIE @ 27 Oct 2005, 12:15) | ||
SO I CAN TELL YOU ARE NOT IN THE TRADING BUSINESS. FYI, TRADERS DON DO REPORTS, SO THEY CANT MESS IT UP. ALSO, EACH TRADER HAS DIFFERENT CREDIT LIMIT DEPENDS ON HIS ABILITY, EXP..ETC. IF HE IS OVER THE LIMIT, CREDITS WILL ALERT HIM TO REDUCE THE TRADING AMOUNT WITH A CERTAIN PERIOD, USUALLY 1-2 DAYS, WHETHER HE IS GOOD TO THEM OR NOT. TRADERS DOESN'T HAVE TO PLEASE EVERYONE IN THE FIRM, NOT EVEN THE CEO OR CHAIRMAN. YOU CAN BE A WORLD-CLASS ASSHOLE AND STILL KEEPING THE JOB AS LONG AS U MAKE TONS OF MONEY. AT LAST, TRADING DOES INVOLVE GREAT RISKS BUT ITZ TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM PURE GAMBLING. IF U HAVEN'T TRIED IT, DON KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT, THEN I SUGGEST U DON MAKE TOO MUCH ASSUMPTIONS AND SHOW SOME RESPECT. |
so many trading desks around, some of the traders do need to calc their daily P&L, and I call it a report, if you do not like it, that is your problem
That is indeed a lot of money...so you got 22 million as a bonus as well? Then y r u still working there? I would directly go retire, or go do something that I really like if I have 22 million bonus.
hmm, maybe you are right, in your area, ZOMBIE, whatever, I do not care that much
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:05) |
| hmm, maybe you are right, in your area, ZOMBIE, whatever, I do not care that much |
SURE, I'M NOT SAYING YOU WOULD CARE, OR YOU COULD CARE. JUST DON SOUND LIKE YOU KNOW ALOT ABOUT THE BUSINESS BUT IN FACT YOU DON'T. COZ IT WOULD MAKE YOU LOOK EXTREMELY STUPID. MAY BE ACTUALLY YOU ARE, BUT YOU DON'T REALLY WANT OTHERS TO KNOW, DO YOU.
| QUOTE (v_c @ 27 Oct 2005, 12:56) |
| That is indeed a lot of money...so you got 22 million as a bonus as well? Then y r u still working there? I would directly go retire, or go do something that I really like if I have 22 million bonus. |
I DON GET AS MUCH AS THE HEAD, BUT WOULD SAY ITZ MORE THAN SUFFICIENT. 22 MIO IS INDEED ALOT OF MONEY, WHETHER ENOUGH OR NOT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU ULTIMATELY WANT TO ACHIEVE. BESIDES, IT WOULD BE TOO EARLY TO REITRE AT MY EARLY 20S. IF YOU WANT TO GET INTO THE BUSINESS, NEED TO BE A BIT MORE AMBITIOUS, MATE. WOULDNT ADVICE YOU TO BE AGRESSIVE BUT IT IS CONSIDERED AS A STRENGTH IN MANY AREAS.
| QUOTE (ZOMBIE @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:27) | ||
SURE, I'M NOT SAYING YOU WOULD CARE, OR YOU COULD CARE. JUST DON SOUND LIKE YOU KNOW ALOT ABOUT THE BUSINESS BUT IN FACT YOU DON'T. COZ IT WOULD MAKE YOU LOOK EXTREMELY STUPID. MAY BE ACTUALLY YOU ARE, BUT YOU DON'T REALLY WANT OTHERS TO KNOW, DO YOU. |
heihei, the fact, who knows...
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:39) | ||||
heihei, the fact, who knows... |
right, seems the admins not so happy my words. Hope you are not affended or have any hard feelings, otherwise, my appology. Prices are shooting up, althought not much trading going on due the high prices (thatz why i can be here in the first place..), still got me a bit hyper...
hehe, that is nice to receive an apology....
BUT, how do I know you are not bluffing?
BUT, how do I know you are not bluffing?
and I have seen much worse people and worked with some of them 
you have not qualified to be a world-class a$$h0le yet!
you have not qualified to be a world-class a$$h0le yet!
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:49) |
| hehe, that is nice to receive an apology.... BUT, how do I know you are not bluffing? |
bluffing about what... me being a trader? or a world class asshole...? for the former, u can trace my ip, then you'll know roughly where i am.. for the latter... don worry.. i will be soon....
hmm, if you trace mine.....
Please guys, don't fight mah~~
By the way Zombie, are there any girls in your trader team?
By the way Zombie, are there any girls in your trader team?
maybe I fought too much, I do not feel like fighting
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:59) |
| hmm, if you trace mine..... |
I'M NOT THE ONE WHO IS SUSPICIOUS....
| QUOTE (v_c @ 27 Oct 2005, 14:11) |
| Please guys, don't fight mah~~ By the way Zombie, are there any girls in your trader team? |
SURE.. BUT ONLY AS CLERKS.. THIS IS A MEN'S GAME...
This gives me some motivation now...there is no "men's game" nowadays anymore~~
| QUOTE (v_c @ 27 Oct 2005, 14:50) |
| This gives me some motivation now...there is no "men's game" nowadays anymore~~ |
SO YOU ARE A GIRL THEN... HAHAHA
NO MEN'S GAME? YOU WILL SEE.... TRADING IS STILL 100% MEN'S GAME.. OR AT LEAST 99%.. MEANING 100 TRADERS, 1 FEMALE.. AT MOST...
| QUOTE (jpfan @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:59) |
| hmm, if you trace mine..... |
i thought u should be at work now!
| QUOTE (ZOMBIE @ 27 Oct 2005, 15:01) | ||
SO YOU ARE A GIRL THEN... HAHAHA NO MEN'S GAME? YOU WILL SEE.... TRADING IS STILL 100% MEN'S GAME.. OR AT LEAST 99%.. MEANING 100 TRADERS, 1 FEMALE.. AT MOST... |
y? which part of this job makes a woman not wanting it?
| QUOTE (v_c @ 27 Oct 2005, 15:31) | ||||
y? which part of this job makes a woman not wanting it? |
few woman could handle the pressure! a girl's game? hehe really funny....
| QUOTE (cantylei @ 27 Oct 2005, 15:04) | ||
i thought u should be at work now! |
I am still in office
| QUOTE (cantylei @ 27 Oct 2005, 15:36) | ||||||
few woman could handle the pressure! a girl's game? hehe really funny.... |
would be funny if a girl pick up a phone and swear at the support guys
and what about maternal leave?
| QUOTE (ZOMBIE @ 27 Oct 2005, 13:46) | ||||||
right, seems the admins not so happy my words. Hope you are not affended or have any hard feelings, otherwise, my appology. Prices are shooting up, althought not much trading going on due the high prices (thatz why i can be here in the first place..), still got me a bit hyper... |
Market is down today.
Price too high to trade? Anything can be traded as long as it moves. You must be a long only trader.
| QUOTE (Henri @ 27 Oct 2005, 16:20) | ||||||||
Market is down today. Price too high to trade? Anything can be traded as long as it moves. You must be a long only trader. |
OF COURSE YOU CAN.. BUT DEPENDS ON WHATZ CAUSING THE PRICES SO HIGH, AND HOW MUCH YOU LONG/SHORT....U MIGHT NOT WANT TO MOVE OR TAKE MORE RISKS....
MY MARKETS DIDN'T REALLY GO DOWN... IT REACHED A HIGH AND CAME BACK AT WHERE IT ROUGHLY WAS THIS MORNING....
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